[chuck]Palmer sent us an email confession: he is not actually a faithful, active member of the LDS Church (though he apparently was until about 3 years ago) — he is actually an atheist in disguise. He came on the show after being thoroughly disgusted with Sean’s performance and hoped to give us a real challenge, arguing as he would have 3 years ago.
I’m a bit nonplussed. He’s a good apologist, so I’m disappointed we won’t be able to go the rounds on more issues, such as the LDS history of institutionalized racism, the Adam-God doctrine, polygamy, etc. We will probably have him on the show to explain his deception more thoroughly and to give debating tips from a former apologist’s perspective.
Truth be told, I’m still not sure what to make of it all.
29 Responses to “BREAKING NEWS”
I’m…confused. That seems…crazy…
Oh man… We got punked! >.<
Well, that does explain why he was able to give a straight answer to a posed question; he was not afraid to be kicked out of a place he has already left.
Personally, my mind is more at ease now. The mental calisthenics demonstrated, especially in the part about the Book of Abraham were more elaborate than whatever Cirque du Soleil has demonstrated thus far. If Palmer were still a practicing LDS member, I would be tempted to use a photo in a campaign titled “This Is Your MInd In Spandex”.
The guy is obviously a moron.
What was the point?
The Lord does indeed work in mysterious ways. That’s just weird. I guess the Skunk Dick of the Guest Month Award goes to Mr Palmer. And here I was getting all riled up that people could actually believe all that bullshit and I was doing much the same. Huh. I am sure if he had been straight with you (and not so dickish) you would have still had him on to explain how he would have responded to your questions when he was a member of the LDS church. I bet he also has an interesting deconversion story too.
BTW, I really like the new look of the website, but miss being greeted by the Penguin couple and Mike….
I just need to figure out which file to shove where, and the logo will return.
Before I left the church, I wondered who else was having doubts. It’s hard to ask outright. You sort of feel each other out like revolutionaries in a bar. I kind of felt like he might be one of those people. The ones that only stay because it is the only thing they’ve ever known, afraid of leaving the support network they depend on.
Let me guess, he’s a lawyer…
Still a great episode. Maybe you should have him on again to explain how he quit thinking like that.
While I admit it must be galling to be deceived, I think it was still a very interesting episode, and Palmer argued very credibly. He does owe an apology, and I second Jim T’s call to have him back on and talk about it–giving you a chance to dish out some retribution and him the opportunity to apologize and explain. Continue to pursue other reps of Mormonism to argue from their *currently held* religious position also 🙂
wow that is a crazy turn of events. I thought Palmer represented what a Mormon would have said. I am an ex-Mormon but all of my family is still very active and he sounded pretty much like they did. So i guess it gives me hope that knowing Palmer moved on and realized the truth that maybe my family can also.
Either way it was still a good podcast and i am looking forward to more like it.
All I can say is- WOW & WHY? That was a rip-off. To make up for it, 2 more moths of guest podcasts!
Yes, it does explain how he was able to stay so calm.
A good practice run for the day when a real Mormon faithful steps into the ring, perhaps. But then again, what’s the point? A true believer’s answers won’t be any better than what Palmer gave. It’s just asking for frustration.
But if it’s a train wreck we want to see, get that Mike character who is the lone representative of believing Mormons from the Mormon Expressions podcast. Now there’s an unmarvelous work and a wonder.
It was not a waist of time, I think it was more of an exercise on self-indulgence by Palmer. Hes appearance in the show counts as lying, no matter how nice we wanted to put it. The verbal sparring between Chuck and Leighton and him probably increased his ego. Maybe he was getting ready for a job interview. He is eloquent, lets give him that. He is a dick though.
Well, even if Chuck & Leighton got punked by him, Palmer was, nonetheless, perfectly well versed in Mormon apologetics. His [fake] defense of the faith rolled glibly off his tongue.
I guess Chuck & Leighton should be flattered that *real* Mormon apologists are too nervous to honestly engage C & L.
I look forward to him being on your show again!
I am sure you will have him eloquently discuss his reasons for leaving the LDS.
it was still a good episode. I was amazed at the justifications he seemed to be making up out of just whatever. Much like Biostasis on the ark. I didn’t know you were tired, i thought it sounded like you were maintaining exquisite control and politeness to your guest. “well, that’s very interesting and not crazy at all, but let me point out….”
I loved that episode, but now I know that my BS Detector is working great. I knew he wasn’t a True Believer. But it was still a great episode — Palmer did a great job playing the Faithful Mormon.
I also listen to another Mormon-themed podcast, Mormon Expression. On there Nyal (an ExMormon) and Glenn (an unorthodox Mormon) will sometimes play the part of the apologist to show the other side. Then there’s Mike, another panelist. Mike is a True Blue Believer. He’s drank more Red Mormon Kool Aid than is healthy for one human being.
When you listen to Nyal or Glenn play the Mormon part you can see the other side and even understand it (a bit). When Mike spouts off you can only think, “Really? Really? You really believe that?”
It takes a certain level of separation to be able to explain Mormonism “logically.” When a True Believer goes off on Mormonism it sounds ridiculous.
Wow. I was fooled. I have to say other than the book of Abraham part, he seemed to be holding his own very, very nicely. He seemed calm and respectful without making it seem like he was owed it because his beliefs were based on a religion followed by more than 14 people.
Too bad he turned out to be a prankster.
I have to admit I was fooled there. The only thing that I found a clue in retrospect is that he was too calm about the whole thing. But that’s retrospect.
Alas. He could have come on as an ex-mormon and accounted for himself well I think, instead of being deceptive.
Aw, man; for all the people doggin’ Palmer, that was one of the best episodes I have heard. You can’t have better training to debate the religious than that. I’ve never seen the guys get so worked up. And what mental gymnastics!
Kudos too to Chuck and Leighton for fessing up and admitting they were duped.
End of the day, Chuck and Leighton might not have argued as vigorously or with as much passion if they knew this was a “moot court” exercise. Not to defend the guest… well okay I’ll defend him a little in an ends justifies the means sorta way. It made for a compelling exercise with, arguably, some needed duplicity
I tried listening to that episode several times, but was never able to make it all the way through to the end. It put me to sleep. At least I know now that I don’t have to make the effort.
Palmer did awesome. Let’s face it, these are the best answers you’ll get from the devout member. He may have punk’d us all, but it was a service as it was presented better than devout members normally can. I’d challenge any devout mormon to do any better.
My only disappointment is that the boys didn’t get a chance to ask about the Garden of Eden being in Adam-Ondi-ahmen… Missouri, or how one must accept the literal truth of the Tower of Babel story for the Book of Mormon to be true (you know, Jared and his Bro).
It was still a good episode, I enjoyed his defense even if fake. But you should definitely do another show to clear the air and also talk about some atheist issues.
He still put up a good fight, though. Well, as a good a fight as someone who has nothing to back up their beliefs can do anyway.
I don’t think the deception was very well thought out and perhaps Palmer should have been up front about it, but I feel that in this case, the ends justify the means. I don’t have a problem with an atheist debating from the believer’s POV especially one who has had experience with apologetics, however, perhaps future guests will be upfront.
That’s pretty interesting… OMG HAXXED.
I thought he seemed kind of dispassionate.
Even after discovering that the debate was a (1-sided) charade, I’d still rank this episode as one of my absolute favorites. The debate was well spoken and our hosts were impassioned!
My only disappointment is that Palmer’s apologetics could have inspired more true believers to appear on the show.