[irrelig]Never say we haven’t suffered for you. We spent two miserable hours listening to arguments from ignorance, special pleading, and flat out making shit up, just for you guys and gals. But here it is, in its original form, warts and all, completely unedited. Pretty much I just want the last two hours of my life back.

For those of you averse to iTunes or rss feeds: part one & part two.

And now Leighton and I are headed to St Louis for the annual Haunt Convention. Road trip, suckas!

99 Responses to “98 & 99: Evidence 4 Faith Redebate”

  1. Oh man! Why the fuck did you pick on those poor Christians? You’re not supposed to pick on retards!!!!

  2. Kiljoy616 says:

    Oh my spaghetti monster I have just finish and I know what water boarding feels like. I was laughing so hard I gaged my self. I don’t know how you guys made it through 2 hours of that. The show was spectacular.

  3. blahface says:

    This should have been a blog tv event.

  4. Miringue says:

    What the crap, when did Chuck turn into a robot all of a sudden? I heard his voice slip for just a second there, but now his secret is out!

  5. Anders: “Chuck is wrong on the color blue. The ‘frequency of light’ is just as abstract a concept as blue.”

    Huh? Frequency is a physical property of light. It’s defined by wavelength. It’s the perception of frequency (color) that is abstract. The same is true of sound. Sound has a frequency, and that frequency correlates to pitch, but pitch is abstract while the waveform, frequency, timbre, harmonics, etc, are all physical properties of the sound.

    Those E4F guys are STUPID. I mean dense. Such clear explanations from Chuck and Leighton and they were unable to comprehend what was being explained because of cognitive dissonance. “You guys are just agreeing with the stuff that already agrees with you.” “No we’re not.” “Okay, then what’s your evidence?” “I’ll have to look it up.” HAHA, really? “I swear I’m not cherry-picking, so let me go look up something that supports my position and I’ll get right back to you.”

    One problem is that I think they do feel embarrassed, but that they think that if they act like they know what they’re doing then no one will notice how ignorant they are. But guys, we’re not idiots, we hear you making lame excuses and shifting goalposts. You’re not being secretive at all, just really obvious and obtuse. And you know they aren’t going to listen to this debate for quality assurance, because then they’d be forced to listen again to how they’re wrong, and they apparently can’t handle that.

  6. Frequency is a concept meaning something like ‘the number of x per unit of time.” Much like the number nine, the physical reality is in that universe but the concept is not.

    Anyway, the ‘must-marry-rape-victim” made perfect sense at the time. The woman was spoiled – she was no longer a virgin – so no one would marry her. But she needed someone to support her, since a woman could not earn her living herself. So it was only logical that the guy who spoiled her marrigeability be saddled with her. It wasn’t a perfect solution, but compared to the alternatives…

    As I said, it makes sense in the historical context. When you say it’s the decision of a perfectly just deity whose commandments are eternal? Not so much.

    I think episode #100 should be a Q&A – make a post and let us ask questions in it, and let the hosts answer whatever questions tickle their fancy.

  7. morguegirl says:

    Love the 2 hours of podcrafty debate goodness! The E4F guys look really REALLY dumb

  8. ChariotsofIrony says:

    “Oh, so you say the concept of ‘no numbers’ doesn’t exist in my Imaginary Theoretical Universe? Gotcha! You said earlier that numbers don’t exist in my ITU, and now you say ‘no numbers’ doesn’t exist? That proves numbers exist!!!!”

  9. CONCLUSIVE proof of Mark 6:45-52: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45yabrnryXk

  10. Are the E4F guys promoting this debate at all? Or are they trying to pretend it never happened?

  11. Dean- interesting question. They were talking it up a bit before hand, looks like we’ll have to wait and see if they say anything after the fact.

    I sincerely hope they decide to do a post-debate “analysis” again, if only that it will point their fans this way to hear what really happened.

  12. That was painful to listen to. I wanted to reach inside my iPod and and slap someone (not you of course). Unfortunately I think the E4F guys still don’t get it.

  13. Brendan says:

    lol @ 9 planets 🙂

  14. zaron5551 says:

    Leighton > Chuck in this debate, Chuck you were too soft.

  15. At least now I know what two guys bashing their heads against a wall for two hours sounds like….

  16. You tried to warn me…

  17. Edgardo says:

    Brilliant. Either you guys are really good debaters, or your opponents were asleep. Sweet. This time the E4F crowd was in your home court, and it shows, by the way Chuck (and Leighton at times) essentially conducted and paced the whole discussion.

  18. These E4F guys need to seek professional help. They don’t even know or understand their own scriptures. When asked to explain specifics, they imply either the bible does not mean what it says, or they need to look it up?

    I can only take people like them only but so seriously…god and religion is a tool these guys use to serve their own self interest.

  19. I can only take people like them but so serious…god and religion are tools these guys use to serve their own self interest.

  20. Those E4F guys are really, really fucking stupid.

  21. they are so dumb, really really dumb, for real!
    they are really really really really really so dumb!

    i was attacked by some idiot in the projects

  22. Holy crap. That was a slaughter. A bloodbath. A complete spree killing.

    And those guys from E4F…were simply clueless. It was embarrassing.

  23. Queen of Hearts says:

    You guys KILLED them! good job!

  24. HAHAHA my teacher is in the band that sings that song!!

  25. That was fucking embarrassing. I had to turn it off after they tried to claim that the genealogies ended in different people. Are you fucking kidding me? Apparently Mary and Joseph were brother and sister. No mention of why bother even giving a genealogy through Joseph since they’re not even fucking related.

  26. Leighton mumbling “Oh my god” in the last 2 seconds pretty much sums up the entire previous 2 hours.

  27. Great job guys. I find myself underestimating you two sometimes because you are always joking around and because Leighton sounds like a neanderthal. It’s funny and all (sometimes), but I forget that you guys know your stuff. There is no question about who won that “debate”.

  28. Jesus guys, WTF was with that entire argument regarding the accuracy of the historical texts? Who gives a shit? No amount of written testimony could ever prove the miraculous claims within the Bible, without which Christianity is done. What else do these sanctimonious bastards have?

  29. Leighton says:

    That wasn’t me mumbling, “oh my god”. That was them forgetting to close the skype connection.

  30. I’m starting on the first podcast and you guys are slaughtering them.

    I think there’s a really concise way to explain ‘exists’ in the sense of a concept and ‘exists’ in the sense of a thing. Just use Batman.

    The concept Batman is different than the object Batman. One exists in our universe. And the other doesn’t.

    So, if people want to argue that God is a concept, fine. We can concede that their god is real in the exact same sense as Batman. If they want to argue that God (unlike the number 9 and batman) is an object, then we’re back to special pleading.

    But, I don’t think you really need this, since you guys are cleaning up.

  31. I gotta admit, I was seriously impressed with the ability to refer to your sources so quickly. You did to the E4F guys what most of your listeners want to do with christians when debating them.

    I guess I gotta buy you some beers.

  32. It is a futile effort you engage in, I simply will not listen to the E4F podcast.

  33. evolve1 says:

    A viscious mauling of foofy toy poodles by rabid pit bulls. If this was on video I would have had to look away as the fur and blood flew. Chuck, I’m glad you’re on our side. I would love to see you engage an opponent who is actually in your league. Leighton, awesome job cutting their “experts” off at the knees. It’s clear your prep work went well beyond Wikipedia. Post another W for us godless heathens.

  34. This was more uncomfortable than a Todd Solondz film. It was like seeing Mike Tyson beat up Stephen Hawking with his own wheelchair and then raping him with the wheels’ disconnected spokes. Regardless of what people say (that you should stop “punishing yourselves” over this type of thing), it makes for a peculiarly perverse pleasure.

    On the downside, I thought you guys came across as a bit abrasive; I can’t blame you for laughing as much as you did at their tearjerkingly pitiful “arguments”, but your collective demeanor was, I would say, counterproductive. Were any lay(wo)men to listen in, you’d come across as the assholes. And that’s fine; you’re “preaching to the converted”, so to speak, so it doesn’t really matter; but I think what yourselves, I and others need to do is to unite with the reasonable Christians, Muslims and soforth and pin these other fundy, eisegeting motherfuckers against the wall ’til they scream like pigs.

  35. P.S.

    I would certainly support a union of realist atheists and rational, critically thinking Christians (as well as Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Bahá’í, and fuck knows what other crazy religious crazies are out there…but hey, if we can all find common ground and agree to attack the least rational, most psychopathic of the fundy persuasion, it will no longer be a war between “EEEEEVIL” atheists and “self-righteous-ass fundamentalists”, but a war between those who believe in common sense and those who don’t. Just sayin’.

  36. Awesome. I wish you guys would’ve asked them WHICH numbers exist outside the universe. Which operators? Numbers in base 10? Base 2? All bases?

  37. mikekoz68 says:

    I had hestitated to listen to this as other debates have always been so unsatisfying but with claims that C&L won,I decided to listen. Well fuck, this was not even close! This was a trouncing, not only did they not know their stuff, they could not understand basic things, things that had nothing to do with religion i.e. the difference between physical and conceptual! it seemed the ‘debate” would be pointless from that point- everybody has the same colour blue?! lol (we might but no way to know it) Blue and the #9 are concepts that exist without a mind- really?! lol They are too dumb to have a podcast! But the best was when they said let Leighton talk and then he opens up a can of whoop ass!!


    What the hell is up with the way the E4F guys debate? It sounds like one talks and the other 2 hide in the back and whisper to each other. In normal discourse, that is cowardly and unprofessional in the extreme.

  39. That was just awesome. Did you by any chance check how much of the podcast consists of shameful silence by the E4F guys? You should compile only that into a single audio file!

  40. sixstringfrenzy says:

    The total dismantling of the E4F ass clowns beliefs was something to behold. I think what truely must have gone up their asses sideways the most was the way Chuck would flat out laugh in their faces with every ridiculous proposition they put forward. Awesome job guys.

  41. […] 98 & 99: Evidence 4 Faith Redebate – Irreligiosophy […]

  42. Well done on the debate, Leighton & Chuck. Don’t forget Kirk/Keith’s parting comment that you guys really had done your homework. Even he recognized that you guys know your stuff. You two were so well prepared and did an outstanding job.

  43. DumberForListening says:

    Holy fuck, I can’t stand their stupidity. Concepts exist in and of themselves? Bullshit! They are necessarily dependent on an entity to conceive them. And the nonexistence of the ‘concept’ that there are no numbers is not the same thing as the non-nonexistence of numbers.

  44. DumberForListening says:

    Also, kudos to Chuck and Leighton for withstanding 2 hours of that crap. I don’t know how you guys do it.

  45. gunsandpickups says:

    the E4F guys came off worse than Justin Bieber in a prison shower. It was actually too painful to listen all the way through.

  46. Rasputin says:

    You know in “Inherit The Wind” where the Clarence Darrow character asks the William Jennings Bryan character “Do you ever think about the things that you do think about?”

    Pretty clear for these guys the answer is no.

  47. ginoLandini says:

    Three things I walked away with from this debate. One, the E4F guys walked in expecting they already knew everything they needed to know and discovered very quickly that they were not at all prepared to answer practically any of C&L’s questions. Two, they walked away shaking their head and, where we may think they were defeated, they merely think they were hit with questions that they didn’t expect, but all they have to do is find their “true” responses and all will be back to normal. Three, the E4F guys lumping mathematics and logical argument in with God as always existent says a LOT about how they conceive of reality.

    Nice work guys, but that was the most painful two hours I’ve experienced form this podcast. I stopped every 5 minutes to relax, then my curiosity over how bad the trainwreck could get got the better of me. You should let them challenge YOU next time…that’d be more interesting.

  48. I love the part when u are pressing them for a response to an important question and they disconnect for a while, layer claiming that water fell on their computer!


    It’s strange that they haven’t posted any of this on their podcast!


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