[leighton] Charley and I have had about a week to discuss what the Evidence 4 Faith troupe would do with a recording of the debate. After all, it was obvious even to them how poorly they did and we know they have a recording of it because in the opening rules they were asking to keep it a certain length so they could use it for their next couple of shows. They have chosen to be cunning by mentioning the debate on their show and then announcing to their audience how poorly WE did in the debate. My question for them is if we did so poorly in defending our beliefs why is it you never once mentioned who we were when discussing our debate and why is it you didn’t provide snippets of the debate or even a link to where your fans can listen to it? After all, having a couple of Christians Trounce a couple of atheists would build faith…
Also, although Kirk has blocked me from sending him emails, apparently he still wants to send them to me:
Definitely the last e-mail
Leighton, I’ve read your response to my last e-mail on your website, and I have concluded that you are truly a psychopath. You remind me of The Joker from the film “The Dark Knight” (portrayed by Heath Ledger) —
BRUCE WAYNE:
We just need to figure out what The Joker’s after.
ALFRED:
With respect, Master Wayne … because he thought it was good sport.Because some men aren’t looking for anything logical, like money.They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with.Some men just want to watch the world burn.
… That’s you to a T.
Kirk
…………………………….
As your resident “Joker”, my inclinations lean towards burning the fucker down. I gladly encourage any of you, our fans, to teach these Christians a lesson in honesty.
75 Responses to “Deceptive Christian Soldiers”
Typical defensiveness on Kirk and Keith’s part. They can’t actually address your arguments, but they can’t ignore the fact of the debate since they’ve already mentioned it, so they just show their point of view and the true believers who just listen to be reassured don’t bother checking.
And I love how Kirk is convinced you’re basically a demon in human flesh. It’s downright hilarious. Be careful of that last sentence, he takes a lot of things literally.
The debate was astonishingly one-sided. It would be impossible – short of lying – to portray it as anything else. They came in with very little and left with even less.
Ummm…. Isn’t that a compliment?
But I am serious, Moewicus. It is a massive compliment to us that they are doing the best they can to bury those two hours of their life, however, such dishonesty deserves contempt. Far as I’m concerned, burn the fuckers to the ground. They mention on their latest show about “adding more radio stations” and if this means they’re expanding I want to cut their dishonest legs out from underneath them and I fully believe our fan base is capable of doing such a thing.
Just finished listening to both podcasts- you guys buried them!!! It looks like they’re running scared. If they ever respond to the women at the tomb and the other things they said they’d get back to you on, make sure to let us know! It seems like every one of their answers is either “I’ll get back to you” or, “it’s this way because that’s what we believe.” The fact that they blocked your email is just further proof that they don’t want to hear the other side.
That’s what all those subliminal messages were for? You brainwashed us, you skunk dicks! *starts lighting matches compulsively*
My wife and I listened to the debate together, and she was appalled at their performance. All of the stunned silences aside, my favourite part was when Chuck was asked whether the premise “Numbers don’t exist” existed in a universe without minds. When he said “no”, they responded with typical childish glee, stating that since the premise didn’t exist, the opposite of the premise was true, and numbers did exist. I swear I heard Kirk thinking, “Q.E.D., bitches!” Of course, if they the intellectual integrity of four-year-olds, they would have realised that if that argument holds (which it doesn’t, for other reasons), then it violates the law of noncontradiction. If the opposite of a premise is true simply because the premise hasn’t been posited, then in a universe without minds the premise “Numbers do exist” would also not exist, meaning (by their logic) that numbers both exist and don’t exist.
That was great fun, gents. Enjoy your week off.
CURVEBALL!
altnation.com/forums/spirituality-philosophy/150951-judgment-day-final.html#post3771825
Kirk bases his opinion on you on works of fiction. Come back out of your hideyhole into the sunshine of reality, Kirk!
Leighton, would you clarify exactly what you mean by “teach these Christians a lesson in honesty”? I mean, you’re not advocating violence or bodily harm here, so what is it you’re suggesting?
My inclination is to ignore them. It’s not like they weren’t living in Fantasy Land before the podcast, so why does it matter after?
I don’t think our fans are as stupid as theists and can thus deduce I’m not calling for physical harm. However, harm to their show is a thought which delights me. Here you have a handful of dishonest Christians and they’re spouting their lies and omissions across the airwaves.
I see them as something which should be torn down before they expand and mindfuck any others. They have a phone number to call into their weekly shows. I encourage any fans in the New Jersey area to listen to them and actually call in. They may not be too keen on playing our debate on their show, but it’s completely different when they are taking calls for their own show. For iTunes I would say start a campaign of funny, bad ratings to ensure people aren’t fooled by them. On their website, http://evidence4faith.com/, they have a page that lists their upcoming speaking engagements. I would encourage our fans to go and meet them face to face with these arguments which they cannot run away from. Bomb their email address with whatever the fans would like to express.
I predict “Dr.” Mike will not be returning to the show and have my suspicions about him being in the room with Kirk and Keith quietly listening to the debate. I also have my suspicions that the times they were having “technical difficulties” was due to their pausing communications so they could quickly discuss a response, but this is a side matter.
Literally, I see this show as everything which is wrong with religion. They are dishonest, condescending, self-righteous, etc., etc., and etc. It’s such things as their show that should be put down like an ailing animal. For once I have faith in our fan base to accomplish this. Out of any other podcast out there, our fans have balls and actual personalities. The constant harassments will eventually twist this show into submission.
Chuck/Leighton,
Awesome show – I don’t think I’ve shouted “Jeez you fuckwhitt” so many times in the space of two hours. The cognitive dissonance was palpable.
Regards
AshDev
Leighton, please keep an open mind to what you are about to read. Let it go. Harrassing the E4F guys won’t solve anything. There is a lot to like about you, but this isn’t admirable at all. Sure, those E4F guys and their ilk are frustrating and are duplicitous; but, the best solution, as Charlie said, “…is to Ignore them.”
This and your similar encounters with Kirk strike me as misplaced anger, and, given your backstory, you’ve got plenty to be angry about. But in this scenario, my friend, you’re just coming across as ugly and mean. It is a waste of engery and time.
I’d rather you challenge us, your fans, to do things that will grow your audience and make you guys more successful at something the two of you are so damn good at.
I’ve listened to several of your podcasts really enjoyed them all. But until I heard you rip apart the Evidence 4 Faith folks, I never realized that the two of you are not only entertaining, but intelligent and well read. You hide it well!
Maybe E4F went for the debate because they’d been lulled into a false sense of security by listening to a few shows and similarly underestimating who they were dealing with. Suckers.
*energy
Leighton, what Herb says makes sense. Those that do want to hear the debate have a lot of ways of getting around the fact that th E4F idiots did not mention you in the podcast. those that are happy with whatever the E4F tells them, well, you don’t want around here anyway.
Calm down Leighton, you’ll give Chuck a heartattack . Or an aneurysm. Or Diabetes.
Totally unrelated, whenever I read Wonkette (only about 8-9x/day) in my head it’s being read by Chuck and Leighton.
It’s sort of hard to let it go, though. I mean, Kirk’s reaction to Leighton giving him a piece of his mind with some hostility is basically to label him the son of Satan. That’s fucking maddening, especially considering they think of themselves as fair-minded skeptics. Maybe there could be some middle ground between ignoring them and completely actively undermining them.
leighton,
i think you would look really good in a nurses uniform and your face all painted up…just sayin…
What a fucking douche-canoe
Leighton, Chuck,
You fist-fucked these clowns into submission. First comes Chuck who is rubbing their noses in their own bullshit, then when they are tapping out beggin for Leighton to start to be more vocal, hoping that he will just diddle on about his small penis, outta fuckin no-where Leighton comes in dropping the elbow from the high-ropes.
Keep up the solid work, but for the love of jesus, don’t expose your-self to this kind of shit again. you truly are benevolent loving gods to subject yourself to 3 hours of hell
Good debate guys. Of course, there are so many errors and contradictions in the Bible; I spent a lot of the debate expanding on details. There are a few sticky points that no apologist (that I’ve ever encountered) can answer, specifically regarding the genealogy. Besides, most apologists assign Luke’s genealogy to Mary (I believe they had it backwards). Regardless, both genealogies are disqualified due to OT curses/prophecies.
I like how they went into such detail about how accurately the “original” manuscripts were copied ‘…counting the number of letters, checking the words at the beginning, middle end…to ensure they were being transcribed “exactly” as the originals were’. Really? Then why the hell are there so many errors and contradictions?!
The original message wasn’t changed due to these transcription errors…really? Then why are there so many sects who prefer their own translation, based off of different manuscripts, which give different meanings to certain passages?! The KJV specifically was based off of notoriously poor manuscripts, differing greatly from more modern translations.
Besides, “Evidence for Faith” is an idiotic title. If you had evidence, you wouldn’t need faith. That’s the whole point.
Nah, this has nothing to do with anger, frustration, or anything else I’ve been accused of. This is about having a show in which it is clearly seen what the religious leaders have been doing for thousands of years. This is about a show which aids in the low IQ rates across the U.S. What I see in them is the same dishonesty shown in church leaders when they change their own doctrine to maintain control. The reason I do this show is so others can escape the same cycle of control I was bent over with by religion. What I see in them is everything which is vile and wrong with religion and I want to shine a spotlight on it.
Assyria: You send me a nurse uniform and makeup and I’ll put it on.
I think the iTunes review idea is great especially if Irreligiosophy and casts 98&99 are referenced.
Those were 2 truly great shows, guys. I think “noisician” is absolutely right that they must have been lulled into a false sense of security by your charmingly coarse style. They, clearly, never really listened to your shows before and vastly underestimated your familiarity with the material and overall intelligence.
It reminded me of Bugs Bunny skating circles around Elmer Fudd while slapping him silly.
You guys trounced these idiots. Not that hard because they are intellectual light weights. How about calling it a warm up, practice bout. Now it’s time to move up a weight class and look around for some bigger idiots to maul. I could suggest names (and will if you want) but I think you know who they are.
I just threw a nice review their way, referencing the latest debate episodes. Now all I have to do is hope they check their Canadian reviews lol.
After reading Leighton’s comments I can’t help but feel that he’s calling for the revolution. Is it time that the proletariat (Atheists) let the hills run red with the blood of their oppressive Bourgeois (theists)? Has the time come for the proletariat to own the means of (intellectual) production? Comrades, the time has come to fight the oppressors! Fight them on the airwaves! Fight them on the ballots! It is time for the grandchildren of the enlightenment to destroy our intellectual slave holders!
P.S. Where is the fucking Perky Soft Receptive Breasts Show?
People tend to believe what they believe, not by way of reason, but moreso by emotion and social pressure. Going the reasonable route takes conscious, dedicated focus and a willingness to admit being wrong about anything; it’s not the default. Keith and Kirk may be too entrenched socially with their Christian circles to be able to even see where we atheists are coming from. They don’t get it, and they may not be able to get it ever, as their cognitive dissonance does not allow it. If they conceded any argument contrary to their faith it would unleash an unstoppable avalanche of doubt and they know it. In this sense, they’re slaves to their religion. They might even be so stuck in that rut that suicide would seem better than ideological surrender. While I want to take pissy Christian shows down, and I have no problem writing critical emails, it wouldn’t be a good move to push these guys past their breaking point. It can definitely happen.
On the other hand, Leighton makes a good point. Take the motherfuckers down. The religious situation in the US is precarious. Intelligent Design and Republicans and Glenn Beck and all that jazz, fuckin’ up the world. We atheists need to go to battle, for if there are Christian soldiers marching as to war, who is there to meet them? or will they simply ransack the village, unopposed, raping and subsequently marrying all our women so there are none left for me?
Empbac, Discord.Agent, etc.: Like I said, you all have balls. Even the women who listen to us don’t take shit and are packing a bigger pair than any theist you could present me with.
I say we take them down, but through a more positive campaign of spreading damning facts than through a negative campaign of focused mockery; that’s bound only to make E4F withdraw even more. It should be a relentless onslaught of uncomfortable truths, shot at them from every conceivable angle.
Leighton, I’d love it if you gathered a bunch of pictures of yourself having fun and being loving/caring/adventuresome and awesome, then juxtapose it against the images of the Joker/Satan, and invite Kirk to draw his own conclusions.
Gliblord, I think this comment thread is already enough of a juxtaposition of those contrasts. Kirk’s a blind man for this nonsense about Leighton being like the Joker, and it just makes him look mean-spirited in a way I find much uglier than Leighton’s prodding. In fact, though I didn’t realize it was possible until now, I’ve lost a significant amount of respect for Kirk. Shocking, right?
I really enjoyed the last 2 episodes. You guys were in top form. My favourite part of course is when they chanted to let Leighton speak because Chuck wouldn’t let up, and then Leighton drops a huge bomb on them. Brilliant.
I read through the email exchanges. I think you are getting too involved Leighton. I guess I would be miffed too if I gave every chance and benefit to someone and they shit all over me.
Kirk’s statements about you going to hell, or how immoral you are were unjustified. I hope he realizes Jesus stated by the measure you judge others shall you, yourself be judged – but I doubt it given their display of biblical knowledge.
I especially like how he counseled Chuck to ditch you. He is seemingly unaware of your friendship or when you and Chuck are satirizing them. But what can you expect from entirely humorless people whose defense of every critique is, “Gee willikers, these issues have been known for a long time fellas. Why, every one of them has been answered, you just won’t accept irrational responses for rational ones!”
At any rate, great shows, some of your best work to date. The only thing I would caution is not to accept their framing of your character L. Let them rant and rave, the quality of the work is a testament to itself. I don’t think any listener of e4f can be an honest person and come away thinking the e4f people did a good job.
All this bravado and chest thumping combined with talk of putting E4F “down like an animal,” and “letting the hills run red,”…you look and sound like the very people you accuse of being idiots. Idiots.
I’m going to give those pagan/christian persecution episodes another listen. I could have sworn there was a lesson in there somewhere.
As far as Leightonian bluster goes I bet that’s positively friendly.
I left a nice iTunes review for them with links to the debate episodes so hopefully some of their listeners (if they actually have any?) will hear it and see just how ignorant they are of their own magic book. I don’t think you’re going to convince them to start thinking rationally, but that’s not usually the point of a debate. You’re not trying to convince your opponent you’re right, you’re trying to convince the audience. I think its clear that you did just that. Those guys sounded like fools on the show and it will be clear to anyone who hears it.
I don’t think vicious attacks are necessary, but if someone were to edit a nice soundbyte of them saying they had no problem with a rape victim being forced to marry her rapist for 50 pieces of silver and send it to their radio station, I think that would be an appropriate response.
The iTunes reviews is a good way of dealing with the problem, and like I said, those who are not inquisitive and do not value truth over wishful thinking are the people you don’t want around.
But going around hounding them? This is EXACTLY what they want. An excuse to be martyrs to the cause, because if someone has suffered, it is considered bad form to say that their suffering was for nothing. Even if the “suffering” in this case is, like, a bunch of people on the internet saying they wouldn’t know legitimate scholarly sources from a hole in the ground (which also happens to be accurate).
Don’t give them the satisfaction Leighton. And about being called the spawn of Satan and a psychopath by one single idiot? That’s nothing. Just because I am female I have been deemed to be much, much worse by default.
I realize that these asswipes deserve to be left in a room with a hungry Mr. Smiles but they just revealed themselves as trolls. Don’t feed the trolls. I realize that this a situation that would leave lesser men butthurt but don’t let these clowns occupy any more or your time or energy. Relax dude. Don’t let them occupy any more of your energy and time.
What do you think the chances are of them reading their New Zealand reviews? I reckon their pretty high, right?
Chuck and Leighton,
Those E4F guys are fucktarded needle dicks.
Given that you two are a couple of big-time shit-slingers, you completely out-class them.
You should go after bigger game in the future.
I think we should close this thread. The spirit has fled. Leighton, I need to talk to you in private afterwards.
At 47:32 of part deux, one of the E4F guys says, about Chuck’s reference to Richard Carrier’s hypothesis about the empty tomb:
“How come nobody else ever thought of this before you?”
“We’ve had thousands of years to come up with this, and you’re the first one to come up with it, is that right?”
Yes, thousands of years, during which the slightest disagreement with orthodoxy could lead to torture or death, thousands of years during which “heretical” writings were destroyed. It’s not very honest to kill your critics for thousands of years, and then pretend that no one has ever spoken up against your assertions.
Everett, I think the idea is at least as old as the Toledod Yeshu:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot_Yeshu
Let me get this straight – an idiot who believes that forcing a woman to marry her rapist is a good thing, thinks Leighton is a psychopath? I think it’s pretty clear who is actually lacking in empathy.
I also noticed how convenient the timing of the technical difficulties was. Especially the first one. They spilled water on their computer? Really?
agentsarahjane is right Do not feed the troll. especially such sad speciments of Condescendiosa passive-aggressivium
http://aprillhamilton.blogspot.com/2009/06/authors-field-guide-to-internet-trolls.html
Water on the computer was classic. You don’t spill water on your computer and lose internet connection, you spill water on your computer and your computer is toast.
When I was your companies Help Desk Guy, one of the drones brought me her laptop and said it wouldn’t turn on anymore. Well, what happened? Nothing, it just won’t turn on. Ok, I’ll take a look.
It was full of coffee.
Leighton, I got some scrubs, how about that and leftover halloween makeup?
I think you shook their faith, Leighton– and now they’re worried they’re going to suffer eternal consequences.
It’s easier for them to dismiss you as a psychopath (or demon inspired) then to listen to what you have to say.
I’m with Nancy– those who can justify forcing a woman to marry her rapist have exhibit much more psychopathy than someone who doesn’t believe in magic stories. I enjoyed every minute of this massacre. I think you planted a scary seed of doubt in the mind of those true believers. It would be interesting to hear what their fans thought of the exchange.
I think Kirk is a little sweet on you, Leighton…
I have no proof but I think Leighton is correct when he says they are liars- in the first part of the redebate when faced witha tough(should have been easy) question they go off the air for a bit then come back on. When C&L ask what happened they calmly state that they spilled water all over their computer and that was the cause of the interruption- what a load of crap! They needed time to confer which way they wanted to answer the question ,which I believe was, is the bible infallible?, there was no scream of “fuck my water bottle” no gradual cutout, no concerns of the computer being ruined just a stupid joke about getting shocked. You’re right Leighton, they are liars